Who is your Emmanuel Goldstein?

Have philosophical discussions about politics, law, and government.
Featured Article: Definition of Freedom - What Freedom Means to Me
User avatar
Burning ghost
Posts: 3065
Joined: February 27th, 2016, 3:10 am

Re: Who is your Emmanuel Goldstein?

Post by Burning ghost »

TH -
Moderate Corbyn is a move to the centre ground of politics from the extremism of Thatcher and Blair.
Sorry, this confuses me. What is “moderate” about Corbyn? Or did you mean that the distinct difference between the two main parties is now more distinct given that the Lib Dems where sold-out by the other parties insistence that changing the voting system would be surprising if you look at the proportion of votes in favour of the Liberals over the 90’s.

Personally I think it may worth considering that we’ve now got TWO distinct parties, one with conservative values and one with socialist ideas, because prior to this the Lib. Dems were for government reform, socialist ideas and conservative values too. Sadly they were screwed over. Paddy Ashdown was the last honest politician I’ve seen. If he’d lied about his parties policies, lihe the other two, he’d probably have gotten into number 10 - sadly they lied and then raised taxes just like he said he would and they tended to pretty much take on the role of what the Lib. Dems had stated.

Now the UK is possibly heading for something akin to the US “style of politics” if we’re not careful. I hope that the Lib Dems can get back on track and drop the whole Brexit nonsense as being the main pushing force behind their public policies.
AKA badgerjelly
User avatar
Burning ghost
Posts: 3065
Joined: February 27th, 2016, 3:10 am

Re: Who is your Emmanuel Goldstein?

Post by Burning ghost »

Note: I am glad Corbyn got votes and I was telling everyone to vote for him, because I felt that the Conservatives would be too much of a menace if they could pretty much vote through any policy they wished - even though that is unlikley given that within every party there is a degree of division; it still worried me though.
AKA badgerjelly
User avatar
Sy Borg
Site Admin
Posts: 14992
Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm

Re: Who is your Emmanuel Goldstein?

Post by Sy Borg »

Steve3007 wrote: September 28th, 2018, 5:06 am
Greta wrote: Gina Reinhardt (Big Coal) is now a major shareholder of Fairfax so that puts paid to that opposition. The ABC is under constant attack by coal-affiliated politicians, and the board was stacked with conservatives, with regular deep funding cuts to reduce its ability to hold government accountable.
As I understand it, the ABC is similar in its supposed aspirations to the BBC - to be an editorially independent taxpayer/license-payer funded news outlet. Not being dependant on advertisers for revenue, they should in theory be free of commercial constraints creating biases or the need for sensational headlines to keep that advertising revenue. But, in practice, it's clearly very difficult to arrange this. In the case of the BBC I suppose its roots didn't even conform to those supposed aspirations in the first place. It was originally very much part of a British Empire establishment.

If the Wikipedia article about the ABC (the section about its independence and impartiality) is to be believed, then the proposition that it has a right-wing bias doesn't seem to be the whole story. Opinions seems to vary as to whether its bias is left or right wing. Similar to opinions about the BBC. Of course, I don't know whether the Wikipedia article is to be believed. I need to dig deeper.
I see the ABC as fairly centrist like the BBC, much more conservative than the Liberal Party claims but by today's measures more left than right leaning, perhaps because the right today seems to have lost interest in reason.

It would be difficult to support the right today without bias. Why bother listening to scientist opinions? They only spend their lives studying their subjects. Better to listen to billionaires prepared to donate to the party and then think of spurious justifications for the public to swallow.
Eduk
Posts: 2466
Joined: December 8th, 2016, 7:08 am
Favorite Philosopher: Socrates

Re: Who is your Emmanuel Goldstein?

Post by Eduk »

I don't think I've particularly met any/many people who would be best described as liberal or conservative. I've met plenty of people with extremely strong liberal/conservative views, but I've always seen that as a fashion statement rather anything inherent to their character or conscious. Certainly I have never met anyone with a coherent argument for their political affiliation. Or to be clear there are semi coherent reasons, as in I'm racist so I'll vote to leave the EU, but those reasons don't make sense and are rarely shared in such a straightforward manner.
When Tony Blair first took power with the Labour party my friends supported labour with as much sense and depth of reason as I support Liverpool (as in no sense or depth). Now many people hate him with as much sense and depth as Manchester United supporters hate Liverpool (as in no sense or depth).
Personally I would love to see some sources for anyone's strong beliefs other than just writing down opinion. It's my opinion that Tony Blair is in fact the exact centre of the universe. I have no reason to believe this. Or any evidence. Can anyone prove me wrong?
Unknown means unknown.
Steve3007
Posts: 10339
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm

Re: Who is your Emmanuel Goldstein?

Post by Steve3007 »

As measured against a Blairocentric reference frame, with respect to which Tony Blair is stationary, the whole universe does indeed revolve around/move relative to Tony Blair. But it wouldn't be an inertial reference frame, unless Tony Blair is in free fall. Measured against that reference frame, Jeremy Corbyn is moving and Scott Morrison is upside down (and moving). I think Donald Trump is sideways. But none of this suggests anything about what either Jeremy, Scott or Donald are doing with respect to any absolute reference frame that might exist.

Sorry, I think I'm getting my topics mixed up.
User avatar
ThomasHobbes
Posts: 1122
Joined: May 5th, 2018, 5:53 pm

Re: Who is your Emmanuel Goldstein?

Post by ThomasHobbes »

Eduk wrote: September 28th, 2018, 8:43 am I don't think I've particularly met any/many people who would be best described as liberal or conservative. I've met plenty of people with extremely strong liberal/conservative views, but I've always seen that as a fashion statement rather anything inherent to their character or conscious. Certainly I have never met anyone with a coherent argument for their political affiliation. Or to be clear there are semi coherent reasons, as in I'm racist so I'll vote to leave the EU, but those reasons don't make sense and are rarely shared in such a straightforward manner.
When Tony Blair first took power with the Labour party my friends supported labour with as much sense and depth of reason as I support Liverpool (as in no sense or depth). Now many people hate him with as much sense and depth as Manchester United supporters hate Liverpool (as in no sense or depth).
Personally I would love to see some sources for anyone's strong beliefs other than just writing down opinion. It's my opinion that Tony Blair is in fact the exact centre of the universe. I have no reason to believe this. Or any evidence. Can anyone prove me wrong?
Your belief has neither sense nor depth.
People with sense and a great deal of depth have very good reasons to hate Blair.
But a football supporter is always an idiot in every case.
User avatar
Burning ghost
Posts: 3065
Joined: February 27th, 2016, 3:10 am

Re: Who is your Emmanuel Goldstein?

Post by Burning ghost »

TH -

I had no idea you classed football supporters as being on your intellectual level :P
AKA badgerjelly
User avatar
ThomasHobbes
Posts: 1122
Joined: May 5th, 2018, 5:53 pm

Re: Who is your Emmanuel Goldstein?

Post by ThomasHobbes »

Burning ghost wrote: September 28th, 2018, 1:07 pm TH -

I had no idea you classed football supporters as being on your intellectual level :P
Given your absurd comments about the Liberals I do not think you have much credibility to judge idiocy.
User avatar
ThomasHobbes
Posts: 1122
Joined: May 5th, 2018, 5:53 pm

Re: Who is your Emmanuel Goldstein?

Post by ThomasHobbes »

Burning ghost wrote: September 28th, 2018, 1:07 pm
And calling me a Troll in a PM is a sneaky and childish bit of Trolling.
Eduk
Posts: 2466
Joined: December 8th, 2016, 7:08 am
Favorite Philosopher: Socrates

Re: Who is your Emmanuel Goldstein?

Post by Eduk »

TH I know you know I know that you know how your response sounds. But knowing this I don't know why you proceed. It feels like so many people on this forum are just crying out for help. Surely there is a better way though? I don't want to seem unsympathetic, I would genuinely like to help you if I could.
Unknown means unknown.
User avatar
ThomasHobbes
Posts: 1122
Joined: May 5th, 2018, 5:53 pm

Re: Who is your Emmanuel Goldstein?

Post by ThomasHobbes »

Eduk wrote: September 28th, 2018, 3:06 pm TH I know you know I know that you know how your response sounds. But knowing this I don't know why you proceed. It feels like so many people on this forum are just crying out for help. Surely there is a better way though? I don't want to seem unsympathetic, I would genuinely like to help you if I could.
If you need help I suggest the Samaritans.
https://www.samaritans.org

You have no need to suffer alone.
Post Reply

Return to “Philosophy of Politics”

2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise
by John K Danenbarger
January 2023

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023

The Unfakeable Code®

The Unfakeable Code®
by Tony Jeton Selimi
April 2023

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are
by Alan Watts
May 2023

Killing Abel

Killing Abel
by Michael Tieman
June 2023

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead
by E. Alan Fleischauer
July 2023

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough
by Mark Unger
August 2023

Predictably Irrational

Predictably Irrational
by Dan Ariely
September 2023

Artwords

Artwords
by Beatriz M. Robles
November 2023

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope
by Dr. Randy Ross
December 2023

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes
by Ali Master
February 2024

2022 Philosophy Books of the Month

Emotional Intelligence At Work

Emotional Intelligence At Work
by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt
January 2022

Free Will, Do You Have It?

Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral
February 2022

My Enemy in Vietnam

My Enemy in Vietnam
by Billy Springer
March 2022

2X2 on the Ark

2X2 on the Ark
by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
April 2022

The Maestro Monologue

The Maestro Monologue
by Rob White
May 2022

What Makes America Great

What Makes America Great
by Bob Dowell
June 2022

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!
by Jerry Durr
July 2022

Living in Color

Living in Color
by Mike Murphy
August 2022 (tentative)

The Not So Great American Novel

The Not So Great American Novel
by James E Doucette
September 2022

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches
by John N. (Jake) Ferris
October 2022

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
November 2022

The Smartest Person in the Room: The Root Cause and New Solution for Cybersecurity

The Smartest Person in the Room
by Christian Espinosa
December 2022

2021 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021