'freedom of speech'
- Kiwi
- Posts: 55
- Joined: September 2nd, 2013, 2:35 pm
'freedom of speech'
I myself am a strong supporter of the 'Right of freedom of speech', as I'm sure most people would be if they truly understood the concept.
'Freedom of speech' means you support the right of people to say exactly those ideas which you do not agree with. (Otherwise, you don't believe in 'freedom of speech', but rather only those ideas which you believe to be acceptably stated.)
Seeing as how there are so many different beliefs in the world, and as it would be virtually impossible for all of us to agree on any one belief, you may begin to realize just how important an idea like 'freedom of speech' really is.
The idea basically states 'while I don't agree or care for what you are saying, I do support your right to say it, for herein lies true freedom'.
- FreeSpeech
- Posts: 209
- Joined: August 8th, 2013, 8:31 am
Re: 'freedom of speech'
- Theophane
- Posts: 2349
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- Favorite Philosopher: C.S. Lewis
- Location: Ontario, Canada
Re: 'freedom of speech'
Freedom of speech is overrated. What's underrated is the ability to consider the consequences of said speech before saying a word. What good is speaking with so little listening? So little understanding?Where I come from there exists this wacky concept called 'freedom of speech', which many people feel is one of the paramount achievements in mankind's mental development.
- Kiwi
- Posts: 55
- Joined: September 2nd, 2013, 2:35 pm
Re: 'freedom of speech'
One of the hardest things to teach a child is that the truth is more important than the consequences.Theophane wrote:
Freedom of speech is overrated. What's underrated is the ability to consider the consequences of said speech before saying a word. What good is speaking with so little listening? So little understanding?
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- Joined: August 2nd, 2013, 1:52 pm
Re: 'freedom of speech'
Freedom of speech is not an absolute right anywhere that I'm aware of. One cannot use lies to sell products in most countries. It isn't appropriate and ought not be legal to discuss the details of sex with other peoples small children. One can't yell "FIRE" in a crowded movie theater, unless there is a fire.Kiwi wrote:Where I come from there exists this wacky concept called 'freedom of speech', which many people feel is one of the paramount achievements in mankind's mental development.
I myself am a strong supporter of the 'Right of freedom of speech', as I'm sure most people would be if they truly understood the concept.
'Freedom of speech' means you support the right of people to say exactly those ideas which you do not agree with. (Otherwise, you don't believe in 'freedom of speech', but rather only those ideas which you believe to be acceptably stated.)
Seeing as how there are so many different beliefs in the world, and as it would be virtually impossible for all of us to agree on any one belief, you may begin to realize just how important an idea like 'freedom of speech' really is.
The idea basically states 'while I don't agree or care for what you are saying, I do support your right to say it, for herein lies true freedom'.
Individual freedoms must end where others' rights would be infringed upon. It's an averaging of freedoms.
- Theophane
- Posts: 2349
- Joined: May 25th, 2013, 9:03 am
- Favorite Philosopher: C.S. Lewis
- Location: Ontario, Canada
Re: 'freedom of speech'
Yes! So that society can exist!Individual freedoms must end where others' rights would be infringed upon. It's an averaging of freedoms.
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- Joined: August 6th, 2013, 4:15 am
Re: 'freedom of speech'
- Lusavior
- Posts: 80
- Joined: September 5th, 2013, 2:23 am
Re: 'freedom of speech'
It just means, that in most cases, but especially privately, or with like minded people, that you won't get arrested by saying the wrong thing. People don't have to give two **** about what you have to say, or listen to you for two seconds.
Some people are just true believers, and their ideas are rooted in psychological motivations rather than facts or reason, and there is just no sense listening to, or talking to them, so they usually only get a public hearing within the confines of their own fanatic group, as a laugh by other groups, or for shock value, or something -- but not seriously. Their reasons for holding the positions they do are obvious to people that don't possess the same psychological motivations.
- FreeSpeech
- Posts: 209
- Joined: August 8th, 2013, 8:31 am
Re: 'freedom of speech'
Exactly. I'm not being disruptive because the whole point of this forum is philosophical discussion, I'm not negligent for the same reason nor abusive (I don't think I've ever been offensive).Lusavior wrote:Freedom of speech just means that you can say whatever you want, and no one will come and arrest you -- it doesn't mean that you have the right to a public forum, it doesn't mean that anyone has to listen, it doesn't mean that you can say whatever you want, anywhere you want to. You don't get to be disruptive, negligent, or abusive. It doesn't mean that all views have to be seriously considered in a public arena, or get representation.
It just means, that in most cases, but especially privately, or with like minded people, that you won't get arrested by saying the wrong thing. People don't have to give two **** about what you have to say, or listen to you for two seconds.
Some people are just true believers, and their ideas are rooted in psychological motivations rather than facts or reason, and there is just no sense listening to, or talking to them, so they usually only get a public hearing within the confines of their own fanatic group, as a laugh by other groups, or for shock value, or something -- but not seriously. Their reasons for holding the positions they do are obvious to people that don't possess the same psychological motivations.
Of course there's no reason I should force anyone to consider this seriously, that's what everyone in my thread is doing and I'm not forcing it, in the same way I'm not asking for representation.
HOWEVER, as I've said the point of this forum is philosophy, posting a thread about X is not the same as, let's say... going to a burial and saying bad things about the deceased, the point of a burial is saying farewell, the point a philosophy forum is to... debate.
So now that you've argued a pretty much reasonable argument for freedom of speech, please, for the sake of god, take it into account for the future.
- MogulPhil
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- Joined: January 29th, 2012, 3:33 pm
- Location: near to you
Re: 'freedom of speech'
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- Posts: 2645
- Joined: December 9th, 2011, 4:45 pm
Re: 'freedom of speech'
In my opinion this is more a megalomaniac view on freedom of speech, not the human right idea about it. The human right idea about it is to talk to somebody about what you feel and think. That's a very basic human need, freedom of speech, a human right.Kiwi wrote:Where I come from there exists this wacky concept called 'freedom of speech', which many people feel is one of the paramount achievements in mankind's mental development.
I myself am a strong supporter of the 'Right of freedom of speech', as I'm sure most people would be if they truly understood the concept.
'Freedom of speech' means you support the right of people to say exactly those ideas which you do not agree with. (Otherwise, you don't believe in 'freedom of speech', but rather only those ideas which you believe to be acceptably stated.)
Seeing as how there are so many different beliefs in the world, and as it would be virtually impossible for all of us to agree on any one belief, you may begin to realize just how important an idea like 'freedom of speech' really is.
The idea basically states 'while I don't agree or care for what you are saying, I do support your right to say it, for herein lies true freedom'.
- MHopcroft1963
- Posts: 62
- Joined: January 9th, 2015, 11:33 pm
Re: 'freedom of speech'
Do you mean consequences in terms of what you say doing harm to others, or consequences in terms of people reacting angrily/hatefully/violently to what you said?Theophane wrote:Freedom of speech is overrated. What's underrated is the ability to consider the consequences of said speech before saying a word. What good is speaking with so little listening? So little understanding?Where I come from there exists this wacky concept called 'freedom of speech', which many people feel is one of the paramount achievements in mankind's mental development.
Or perhaps one of the consequences of unconsidered speech is that you look like a fool and actually harm the cause you are advocating for -- not because the cause is necessarily wrong, but because you put your foot in your mouth so blatantly that people think "This guy's a jackass. He must be wrong!"
One other thing: anyone can be wrong. We all are wrong about things at various points in our lives. But somehow we seem to be hard-wired against admitting to it, even when we see our error laid out in front of us unignorably.
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- Joined: September 20th, 2012, 10:22 pm
Re: 'freedom of speech'
The first amendment did away with these threats and put the individual on an equal footing with authority. That is the only thing it was intended to do. Modern interpretations have extended these protections to absurd levels. So, I, for one, do not believe in unlimited freedom of speech. I agree I should have the right to question authority without fear of reprisals, but not the freedom to say just anything just because I feel like it. With freedom comes great responsibility, and restraint in speech is a virtue.
- Okisites
- Posts: 1286
- Joined: April 20th, 2012, 7:53 am
- Favorite Philosopher: Nature
Re: 'freedom of speech'
Hi Logicus, I am really very happy to know that "Freedom of Speech" is actually intended to protect the individual citizen from the power of government. But I would like to know, what do think, how the government practically provide this kind of freedom to the citizen? How it is guaranteed from the government to have freedom of speech to the citizen?Logicus wrote:The first amendment, guaranteeing the "right" to "freedom of speech", was not intended to protect liars, hate mongers, or pornographers, for that matter. It was intended to protect the individual citizen from the power of government. In a monarchy, which is all that anyone knew at the time, an individual could be charged with sedition and crimes against the crown just for disagreeing with a royal proclamation.
Do you identify something in the system which can be very well used to oppose or hinder "Freedom of Speech" by the Government?
Well I would like to know, what do you mean by unlimited freedom of speech(against government or in relation with government)? Where you think there is a borderline between limited and unlimited freedom of speech, and how it is ascertained such that it is perfectly fair?So, I, for one, do not believe in unlimited freedom of speech.
I agree I should have the right to question authority without fear of reprisals, but not the freedom to say just anything just because I feel like it. With freedom comes great responsibility, and restraint in speech is a virtue.
This is my question. How exactly you can question the authority without fear? Means what is the method or system to do that?
Why restraints in speech from a powerless person, to powerful person?
I am sorry, I have asked so many questions to you, but I really like to know, and also, to get you informed if I had something to inform.
- MHopcroft1963
- Posts: 62
- Joined: January 9th, 2015, 11:33 pm
Re: 'freedom of speech'
The problem with that is that some people race and religion are equally taboo (in fact one of things pro-sex artists seem to be advocating is that religions condemning premarital sex is silly), which is usually essentially about people with privilege making it harder for that privilege to be challenged -- even if the privilege is undeserved. The only deterrent to "irresponsible" speech that isn't a form of oppression is the knowledge that nobody really likes to look foolish to entire nations.
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